New finishing stone for newbie?

Hi there, been wet shaving for about 2 years now coming from a sharpening background in fine woodworking tools so had up to a 4k/8k Norton stone with strop. For the first time last week I finally felt like I got it right on my Dovo straight razor and got a noticeably better shave. Probably I felt the key was a lot more stropping - (about 60 passes each side as opposed to about 20 previously).

I am looking at getting a finishing stone ie higher than 8k and at this stage am tossing up between a few as follows...

naniwa super stone 12k at 70 euros
Sigma Power select II 10k at $94 us
Naniwa Chosera 10k at lots and lots (200 euros is best price so far)
Chinese 12k - fairly cheap.

That is my list of option in probable current level of preference based on my own online reading and price.

Main question is this... the two types of Naniwa fine stones are separated by a lot of $ and the main difference they seem to emphasise is that the much more expensive Chosera stones cut a lot quicker. Is this the only perceivable difference (I have plenty of time but not an unlimited budget). Is the Naniwa 12k superstone (used for longer obviously) going to give a theoretically better edge than either of the Naniwa 10k stones.

Also anyone have any experience with the Sigma 10k stones in comparison to Naniwa.

Prefer to buy right and buy once so any feedback would be much appreciated, also any links to better prices than those mentioned aboved would be great.

Thanks
Adam

have you thought of a natural japanese stone? I just got a kamisori asagi stone from JapaneseNaturalStones they have some cheaper ones that are smaller in size. I have heard nothing but great things about them so hopefully it works out for me :) Just thought I would mention it to you!

Super Stone 10k and 12k were nearly identical for me. I prefered the Chosera 10k for its feedback, and the final edge. I don't know which stone out of that lot was faster to be honest. I enjoyed edges off all 3, but the Chosera was my choice.
I had 4 Chinese hones, I didn't like any of them. Never had a Sigma stone.
You might consider a Thuri/Escher for a finisher.

From purely a shaving standpoint, the Naniwa Super Stone 12K is on top every time with every razor when compared to either of the other Naniwa 10K's. That said, the Chosera 10K is a nice CAN DO stone.

Good luck with this as their are tons of nice finishing stones, tons of opinions with some based on a fair amount of experience and all the agendas that you could ever ask for.

Have fun.

A friend has the Spyderco and to listen to him speak of it you would think it's the second coming of the Almighty. I'm not joking, he really loves the stones (I don't recall which ones he has, butI know he has several and the fines of them included). His blades are in my opinion every bit of sharp as mine, I think so anyway. But, I've honed on some old fine no name stones, very high grit wet/dry paper, barber's hones, a BBW and lately a combo-coticule. And I know for my purposes I really don't think I will ever need another stone - it's simply superb. Not to get anyone thinking I'm over excited about it but, it simply serves my needs very well. And, also, I'm not one of those people that equates using a coticule with a religious experience, however, it's a workhorse that does fine work in skilled hands. And even that is overrated, because so long as you're taping the spine you can practice your little heart out with little worry of damaging the edge beyond repair. Just my couple of cents.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

From purely a shaving standpoint, the Naniwa Super Stone 12K is on top every time with every razor when compared to either of the other Naniwa 10K's. That said, the Chosera 10K is a nice CAN DO stone.

Good luck with this as their are tons of nice finishing stones, tons of opinions with some based on a fair amount of experience and all the agendas that you could ever ask for.

Have fun.

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Thanks Lynn. your comments pretty much helped me decide on the Naniwa Super 12k then I discovered the Shapton Glass - could perhaps run to their 16k but think the wife might hit the roof at the cost of the 30k. How would you rate the 16k Shapton Glass vs the 12k naniwa super?

Appreciated peoples sugestion for natural stones but a bit scared to open that pandoras box just yet so will stay clear for now.

Thanks
Adam

Naniwa SS 12k excellent choice. If you're looking at finishing then perhaps consider pastes, sprays and lapping film. You could go up to 12k on your stones and then finish on some 30k(0.5 micron) CrOx, diamond paste/spray, cubic boron nitride spray, lapping film etc. The pastes and sprays could go on felt(hanging or paddle), leather(hanging or paddle), linen or balsa. There are many options and combinations to suit one's fancy. There are even products available beyond 30k up to 160k(0.1 micron) lol.

hi there try the welsh slate hones from a guy on ebay i got a set of three 8k,12k15k and thay finish great and at a good price .mite b worth a look good luck

Eb, I can't speak for the Sigma, but its one that looks appealing, as does the Soehiro Gokumyo 10k. Birnando uses the Sigma, and speaks highly of it. Value-wise, I'm completely impressed with and satisfied by the Nani 12k ss. 'Seems like a runaway winner on the value scale. The chinese stone is amazing for the cost, but few are very satisfied for long w/ the feel of the finish, unless followed up by some other stone or abrasive treatment. They're slower than a dog trying to pass a peach pit. The Nani 12 is fast, smooth, and gives an edge most like.

From a result standpoint, the Naniwa SS 12K, Sigma 13K and the Shapton Glass 16K produce similar results. I find each to be an excellent finisher. The biggest difference are in the feel and feedback with the Naniwa SS being the softest feeling stone and the Shapton Glass feeling the hardest. I have always felt that the Naniwa SS stones were made for straight razors. Can't go wrong with any of these stones.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Ebenholz

Thanks Lynn. your comments pretty much helped me decide on the Naniwa Super 12k then I discovered the Shapton Glass - could perhaps run to their 16k but think the wife might hit the roof at the cost of the 30k. How would you rate the 16k Shapton Glass vs the 12k naniwa super?

Appreciated peoples sugestion for natural stones but a bit scared to open that pandoras box just yet so will stay clear for now.



Thanks
Adam

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ebenholz

Appreciated peoples sugestion for natural stones but a bit scared to open that pandoras box just yet so will stay clear for now.

Thanks
Adam

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Smart man...smart man...kudos to you, sir!

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Thanks Lynn. your comments pretty much helped me decide on the Naniwa Super 12k then I discovered the Shapton Glass - could perhaps run to their 16k but think the wife might hit the roof at the cost of the 30k. How would you rate the 16k Shapton Glass vs the 12k naniwa super?

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Quote:

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From a result standpoint, the Naniwa SS 12K, Sigma 13K and the Shapton Glass 16K produce similar results. I find each to be an excellent finisher. The biggest difference are in the feel and feedback with the Naniwa SS being the softest feeling stone and the Shapton Glass feeling the hardest. I have always felt that the Naniwa SS stones were made for straight razors. Can't go wrong with any of these stones.

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Lynn is once again right on the money. Only one thing to add:
The Shapton GS 30k is one nice stone, but one you will never need from a shaving standpoint.
Do not get me wrong, the 30k is by far my most beloved finisher. But it will not give you anything you cannot achieve with a solid 8.000 grit stone and a fine felt/leatehr/balsa strop with a fine finishing compound, or a 12k Naniwa or 16k Shapton. The Shapton 30k just adds that last 5% for those who are completely nuts. Just like me!
So you won't have to take the price of the 30k into consideration when chosing between the Naniwa, or Shapton system

Ebenholz

I agree the 12k Naniwa SS is your best choice of the selection given. Yes, you can buy other finishing stones in smaller sizes for about the same money.

But if you are new to straight razor honing I recommend the longest & widest stone for the money all other things being equal. Razor honing is different than knife and wood working tool honing. Many of the skill sets will translate and you are probably miles ahead of a complete honing novice. The more variables you can eliminate and build consistency in your honing stroke the faster you will see repeatable, quality results. A large flat surface gives you that.

When I first started collecting stones it was to hone woodworking edges. I found especially with manmade stones, it is easier to have dedicated stones for each application. I do not sharpen razors on stones I use for woodworking. Now you can, you just have to prep the stone each time you switch.

I have found I tend to use more pressure with a woodworking tool and cause the tool to furl or plow the soft stones ever so slightly. Uncorrected this will give you an inconsistent razor edge or microscopically fracture your edge and make you crazy.

I have found it easier to have dedicated stones for each task, Razors, Woodworking tools, & Knives. Yes, I do not know exactly how many stones I have… your point is?

My advice is buy combo stones, great values at the price and keep them separate. For wood working I do 1, 4, 8K & finish on Black or Translucent Arks, then a few strokes on Chrome Ox on a Leather paddle. Probably over kill, an 8k finish is really plenty for most woodwork.

As far as the softness of the Naniwa 12K and speed of cut, not an issue as a finisher you should not be doing that many laps. If you are then you did not hone correctly. Your razor should be sharp at 1K, across the whole blade, I test 3 places, toe, center & heel before progressing to the next stone. Once you set the bevel at 1K it is sharp, each progression is just refining the edge. I test at each progression to make sure I didn’t bugger it up.

Years ago as a kid I spent a summer working for a Painter, this guy could lay down more flat shinny paint with a brush that most could with a gun & compressor. He always said “98% of painting is preparation. I don’t care how much paint you put on it, if the surface is not prepped correctly, the finish… will never look good.” Funny how so many things are like that.

yes, this Naniwas Stones ist the best for Razors. in Germany the best combination is 8000 corma and 10000 Naniwa. But you need the white stone for cleaning.
Here
it is important.
after 30 round you open the stone. three times wipe the stone.

thanks for a great post, very helpful. like your idea of keeping separate stones for woodworking tools, knives and razors.


Made the purchase today of 12k ss so now sit back and wait for the mailman (might take awhile as I live in NZ.

I have just started dabling in commercial knife sharpening as a hobby and can see that I will tend towards diamond
sstones for the coarse grits of that purely for speed and convenience. I have a DMT 220/325 10 inch and today added ..
aa 600 / 1200 of the same in 8 inch. Will probably double up knife and wood tool finishing on Norton 4k / 8k and build up razor stones as a separate collection. I have a 1k Bester near new and might get another 4k 8k for the razors.
Thanks for your help
Adam

is the Bester the IMANISHI Bester? this is a wonderful Stone for Razors. For the cremeslurry.

yes, forgot the makers name and it isn't on the box on English. Seems a nice quick cutter.